Decapitated accused of kidnapping?

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by HeavyMetal4Ever, Sep 10, 2017.

  1. Chokey Chicken

    Chokey Chicken mouth breather

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    Hi folks, female here. Been raped before too. (after a show no less, though not by a band member.) Just a friendly reminder that all this blind speculation, and siding against (albiet under the guise of the whole "innocent until guilty" thing, your biases are clear) her because of said speculation, is exactly why I tried killing myself before (reluctantly) telling anyone. Coming forward about rape isn't fun. I still hate talking about it. I hate remembering it. I hate seeing people give such a large benefit of the doubt to the accused, while treating the accuser as suspect.

    Let the courts do their thing and don't talk about how "some women" like to make stuff up out of the blue. True or not, (surprise, men do it too) you don't know her and as such you should probably err on the side of caution and not speak in such a way that might scare anyone in the future from sharing what happened to them. Remember that you, and everyone, has spectators. People like me, or her, are always watching and listening. I'm not confident I would come forward in the future either judging by how I was treated the last time.

    Take this perspective how you will.
     
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  2. Overtone

    Overtone SS.org Regular

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    If that was the statement you'd made, we wouldn't be confused.
     
  3. HeavyMetal4Ever

    HeavyMetal4Ever SS.org Regular

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    Anyone that thinks rape happens less than false allegations of rape is kidding themselves. If you accept this then surely you would give the benefit of the doubt to the self professed victim, not the alleged perpetrator?
     
  4. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    thought it was easy enough to interpret that was what I meant.
    My bad if it isnt.
     
  5. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    What would be the point of that question? The first one sounded like "oh of course you think that if you're a girl, real men would side with Decapitated against this liar." The other one sounds like an attempt to backtrack, unless you were just trying to hit on me! AHHHH

    If it was truly innocent, just be more careful in threads like this, haha.

    And no, I'm not a girl, I just deal a lot more with women IRL than I deal with metal tough guys and thus tend to react negatively to the common reaction of "look at the woman trying to bring down the GREAT MAN" that I usually see on male-driven message boards. It definitely does happen once in a while, but so far this situation has me siding entirely with the victim until we hear otherwise. Horrible things tend to happen to rape victims who try to do anything about it, ESPECIALLY when they make any accusation against men with any kind of power or fame. She's going to get absolutely raked over the coals by the scum of the internet community regardless of the verdict.
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  6. Nicki

    Nicki SS.org Regular

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    I don't know why all 4 were arrested when it's alleged that it was Michal and Rafal were the ones involved.

    Even if they get free and clear of the charges, that kind of thing hangs over your head for the rest of your life and people are always left wondering. Their reputation is damaged and is irreparable. The only form of damage control is to cut Michal and Rafal loose. Sure, they get hung out to dry, but it's the only way the band can have a hope of continuing on.
     
  7. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Probably arrested as accessories, or depending on what happened, she didn't KNOW which ones had done it? I don't know. If you participated in getting her into the situation you're not exactly innocent. And if one of them just stood by and let it happen knowingly, I don't think he can be charged with anything in the US (though he could in some other countries), but I wouldn't shed any tears over his rep being ruined. Guess we'll find out what the story is at some point. If he truly had nothing to do with it, I don't think his career is over or that he'll be unhireable, he just might have to change the band name and would obviously have to find new members!!
     
  8. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    They were all four arrested for kidnapping. I don't think all four have been charged with rape.
     
  9. lewis

    lewis SS.org Regular

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    yeah it was harmless. I only asked because of your username etc.
    Shouldnt have to be "careful" but I take your point.
    Apologies to anyone who misinterpreted what I meant.
     
  10. BusinessMan

    BusinessMan SS.org Regular

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    Really it does suck for those off us Vogg has inspired. He is one of the players that really got me into guitar playing. I really hope these accusations are false, but damn it sure as hell looks like they aren't. Either, it's a shitty situation for the band and the victim. And then there's the collateral damage to the metal community, giving us the stigma that we're all rapists because we "listen to death metal".
     
  11. wankerness

    wankerness SS.org Regular

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    Well, if they're true, then it's not a shitty situation for the band, they deserve it!

    I remember about 10 years ago in a music and gender class I gave a big presentation on metal (the class was probably like 2/3 women). I mostly talked about metal bands with women as the singers, especially ones that had mellowed over time (ex The Gathering), but I also did some other random stuff highlighting various songs about gender from other bands. Most people found most of it interesting and no eyebrows were raised. Except, I included Cannibal Corpse's "F'kd with a Knife" and "Stripped Raped and Strangled" and said something like "they're just adolescent attempts to shock, I don't get the impression the band or the metal scene actually hates women," cause that was my personal viewpoint at the time. Naturally, NO ONE else in the class bought it and after the presentation almost all the questions were like "what the hell is wrong with them and anyone who listens to them!!" Over the years, I've started to see why they reacted that way. Really, to produce stuff like that legitimately DOES require a huge lack of respect for the other gender, even if it was made somewhat "tongue in cheek," and yes, some of the fans who like that stuff legitimately are psychos. And I didn't even include bands I find far more heinous like Whitechapel!

    This is all a total tangent. It's just an anecdote about how I think us metal fans don't realize just how bad we (and many bands) look to the opposite sex, and this really is a huge confirmation of exactly what "regular" people think already. :( If these guys are guilty, I hope they throw the book at them and there's plenty of public condemnation from other bands on the scene, and that the victim doesn't get attacked by the metal community et large.
     
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  12. feraledge

    feraledge Black Walnut Pounding Bragger Contributor

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    This is not an issue at all.
    1) we know about this because we know the band. The arrest made local news.
    2) It's not like Decapitated dudes, if guilty, are the first rapists in the metal world. Sad but true.
    3) There's too much sketchy shit in metal to think we're cohesive enough to worry about "our" PR.
    4) Just be declarative and clear about this: rapists are fucking scum and deserve no place on this earth, much less in any scene.

    Decapitated put out some good albums. At this point, Vogg is the only original member even? My band played with them before the accident, I didn't meet them. My drummer said Vivek seemed down to earth. Is anyone here friends with them? Can anyone say they have a reason to believe they would never do something like this other than them having written music you like?
    How hard is it to just say "Fuck them" and walk away if this is true, as it seems to be.
    Making good music says nothing about character. And I've had to publicly disown bands way too many times to hesitate in doing it again. Phobia was a huge influence on me in the early 90s, but Shane beat up his GF at Maryland Death Fest and I tossed my shirts/CDs and never looked back. No music is that good that it can overcome horrible people.
     
  13. vilk

    vilk Very Regular

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    So like the writers for Criminal Minds must lack respect for women because they are constantly getting raped and murdered on that show? After all since it legitimately DOES require a huge lack of respect for the other gender to write about murder in a creative setting?

    idk, I've always sorta see gore/murder lyric content as an extension of like serial murder pulp novels. Of which there are tons. My mom reads them all the time, and I'm fairly sure her favorite author is a woman. Blanking on the name though...

    edit: I texted her, it's Mary Higgins Clark
     
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2017
  14. Type_R3387

    Type_R3387 SS.org Regular

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    Me too, friend...Ive always been a huge fan of his playing as well as Decapitated themselves. I do have something on my mind that I noticed though....A while back, about the beginning of July (mere days before the album release), I was browsing Itunes and decided to look up Decapitated. Upon doing so, I noticed that Anticult was listed and already had reviews. A couple reviews stated peoples' approval of the singles that had been released and their anticipation for the new album. However, one review struck me as very odd. It was titled "KILL PEOPLE" and read "Kill people in the state of Washington to this!". When I went back to see if it was there yesterday, it had been removed. While its not a murder, it's very errie that this occurred in the state that was mentioned in the comment. It could be a coincidence.... I really wish I would have screenshot it as I probably sound like Im talking shit.
     
  15. noise in my mind

    noise in my mind SS.org Regular

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    If she was raped, then everyday for the rest of her life she will have to remember it. I think it's one of the worst things you can do to someone.
     
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  16. Type_R3387

    Type_R3387 SS.org Regular

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    I just don't get it, if it really is true. You're a well respected band in the death metal community and you're touring North America. You'll travel across dozens of cities and see probably hundreds of women at your shows (in total...I understand that there will be far more men as a whole.) In fact, there just may be a few ladies that WOULD be interested in some after show "activities". Of all of them, why would you stoop so low as to force yourself upon an unwilling one? Even if she was cool with it at first and then suddenly shifted gears, all bets should have been off. Respect the woman, as it is her choice. Not only is it jeopardizing your career, it's forever altering someone's life in a terrible way. Im really trying to stay positive and hope for these guys to be truly innocent, but the evidence is looking shady. I will give Vogg credit for being honest and giving a sample. Such as a shame as I was so damn excited to see them play here in Michigan...
     
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  17. Ebony

    Ebony Mr Sunshine

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    And if she turns out to be a liar, she will deserve every last syllable typed by this "scum of the internet".

    I agree with the sentiment of neutrality, my distaste for rape and fake rape allegations are identical in degree.
    So far the only thing we definitively know is that someone is guilty of one or the other.
     
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  18. JohnIce

    JohnIce Singlecoils = tr00

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    Lots of dudes can't handle being well respected and successful without developing god complexes and starting to think they can get away with anything, especially with "groupies". Sweden's metal scene isn't very big and everybody knows everybody, and I've seen some disgusting displays of misogyny and assorted ego asshatery from more well respected rockstars than I can count. They're really just insecure little boys underneath it all. Throw a bit of alcohol in them and they'll be standing on a table trying to pick a fight with anyone who won't say their band is the best in the world (that's an actual event, not gonna name names but some people on this board owns his signature guitar). So yeah, while I'll never understand how you could rape somebody, I see the symptoms (inflated sense of power and innacountability) fucking everywhere in the metal scene.
     
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  19. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

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    What the fuck does this even mean? Are you suggesting that only women would stop someone from eating raped?

    Why exactly are you getting at? That "a woman" would be more willing to believe a woman may have been raped?

    It's always painful seeing comments from people immediately supporting an entertainer and leaning towards the rape accuser being a liar - everyone wants to feel "smart" and that "no way are they fooling me".

    If she's lying it'll come out.

    But even if she initially WANTED to have sex with them and got on the bus willingly, but changed her mind at any point - if someone keeps going then it's rape.
     
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  20. oracles

    oracles Australian in Canda

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    No, it absolutely doesn't. That's straw grasping at its finest.
     

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