As I Lay Dying are back with the classic lineup

Discussion in 'General Music Discussion' started by BusinessMan, Jun 8, 2018.

  1. downburst82

    downburst82 SS.org Regular

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    Im pretty sure I rememered reading Tim was pulling in around $200 000 a year. If I remember correctly it came out in the details of the trial was and/or was mentioned in court documents to do with spousal support his wife was claiming (and Tim's motives).

    That wasn't just his income from As I Lay Dying though as he had other projects and investments.
     
  2. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

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    Nobody denies number 1 or 2, do they?

    All I'm saying is that speculators on web forums don't have all the facts. People are saying "he should still be in jail" etc. Based on what? You yourself even said "Both of those things would be more genuine than thinking 2.5 years for getting caught changes anything about who this dude is". How do you know he hasn't changed? Unless you were on his parole board and you are privy to his mindset/attitude then it sounds like you are the one making up theories, based on stuff you read on the Internet...
     
  3. feraledge

    feraledge Heard the Good News about Maple Fretboards?

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    Making up theories? Ha, cool. People who plot to kill their spouse are typically good people who make bad, plotted and dedicate to prolong choices that are awful once or twice. Guess I’m just spinning yarn here.
     
  4. Andrew Lloyd Webber

    Andrew Lloyd Webber Pussy Melter

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    Maybe he still has tits, and that’s what they’re touring.
     
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  5. sawtoothscream

    sawtoothscream SS.org Regular

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    Hated the last album of theirs I bought so haven't listened to anything from them since.

    No way in hell they will get any support from me now. I don't care if he did his time, he is a scumbag and idk how the other guys can stand being around that POS.
     
  6. 7soundz

    7soundz SS.org Regular

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    I'm not exactly a fan of the band but here is my take.

    I'm not sure how many of you have actual experience dealing with prisoners, but from time to time I join a group of individuals who try to assist prisoners during the whole reform process. What I've realized is that some actually get to the point where they realize the significance of their actions, own responsibility for it and may even make a full 360 in their viewpoint of what they've done and be an advocate against their former actions.

    While I don't know the lead singer or the exact circumstances of what took place, I'd say that it is a fine line to walk in passing judgement on someone we all honestly don't know. Some say we should separate art from the artist but where do you draw the line? If we all refused to support an artist based on questionable actions, we may hardly ever listen to music at all. Domestic abuse, drugs, promiscuity and so many other harmful and hurtful actions plague many people who we cross paths with on a daily basis (Not just artists).
    My personal resolve in situations like this is that if someone expresses remorse for their actions and they give evidence of this in their actions moving forward, I would give them a second chance. If someone decides not to extend forgiveness, then that's fine since it's your choice to do so, but I will always try to treat other the way I would like to be treated if I am remorseful over a grave mistake.

    Ultimately, only time will tell if this guy is truly sorry and he has a lot to answer for to his fans who may have looked up to him. He may not win them all back, but I guess this is just the price one will pay for their actions whether you are remorseful or not.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2018
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  7. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Personally, I think that if you draw the line anywhere at all, premeditated murder must fall somewhere over that line. Barring war crimes, I can't really think of any crime more serious than that, can you? To equate premeditated murder with drug use or promiscuity, based on my moral compass, is silly. I understand that my moral compass is not universal, but murder is not a victimless crime like illegal drug use nor mutually consensual sexual contact.
     
  8. BusinessMan

    BusinessMan SS.org Regular

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    As I lay stripping? :lol:
     
  9. GunpointMetal

    GunpointMetal SS.org Regular

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    I think that might be the part of the thing I find the most amusing. People keep equating the situation to something like stealing a car, or getting in a bar fight where somebody got their ass kicked. It wasn't some brainless felony, or an accident, it was attempted premeditated murder. But whatever, I thought the music was trash for the last few albums before this anyways, so not listening to this to not support the asshat and his obviously weak-willed bandmates isn't much of a dilemma for me.
     
  10. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    wow, never thought I would see this. I like the new song and TBH I think his vocals are a little better now/more raw.

    Regarding what he did. Is ridiculous man. Idk what to say, none of my business and idk Tim or his ex wife. I do know things could have been much worse. I am not defending him in anyway but he didn't kill her. I know he basically tried and that is fucked. Maybe she was crazy, maybe he IS crazy? Who knows. I enjoy the tune, everything else sucks.
     
  11. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    And what do you do then? I seriously doubt any sane person's moral compass somehow sees premeditated murder as "oh, not too bad" or even acceptable, yet this dude, like many ex-cons, is now out in the society attempting to prove he is a valid and able member again, and should he falter he will be removed from it with far more severe consequences; if society acts as extremely as the whole proponents of the guy being unredeemable, then he is of course isolated and left without chances of making a living decently, and people who find themselves like that are evidently more prone to commit crimes.

    The reintegration rate in the US is comparatively quite low to that of other countries, and I can't help wondering if this mindset of denying a second chance isn't tied to this in in any significant way. The point of corrective punishment such as jail time in a limited time frame is to be both punitive and gateway for reentry, but if the chance of reentry is denied from the get go, what's the point? Might as well go all Mongol and simply execute left and right.

    Ozzy almost killed his wife, yet I see no righteous indignation towards him. I don't see people up in arms about John Lennon's admitted lovely habit of hitting women, or is the latter ok because it isn't fatal? I will respect any individual's choice of accepting Lambesis or not, but some blanket statements of how we "should" do this or that just make no sense to me, at all.
     
  12. 7soundz

    7soundz SS.org Regular

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    I agree that premediated murder is a heinous crime (In fact just about any hurtful act that is premediated is despicable.) However, I am also of the view that change is possible for everyone. Whether you can trust them again is a separate issue. I wasn't necessarily equating murder to drug use, but just as the moral compass can vary, the effect of someone's actions can vary in the minds of everyone since we may all hold a different set of core values close to our hearts. A wife for example may be just as unforgiving with a cheating husband as she would someone who committed murder based on her feelings on both matters. Taking a life by far tops the list for me personally, but after seeing for myself how persons who were once in gangs that committing heinous crimes managed to completely turn their lives around and help others avoid their mistakes, I'd say that sometimes there can be a basis to give someone another chance to prove whether they deserve our trust or not.
     
  13. 7soundz

    7soundz SS.org Regular

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    Well said. I can't speak for the U.S society, but where I live it is not unheard of to see the family of a victim forgive a killer or to see a murderer be reformed back into society and even be an advocate for change. Sure, examples like these are the minority, but making blanket statements without knowing the individual or the facts of the matter is pointless. Give it time and time will tell if he is a changed person or not.
     
  14. duffbeer33

    duffbeer33 ..working on my mix Contributor

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    The song is good, to me it sounds directly comparable to the material on Awakened. It's difficult to figure out how to support this band going forward. I have been a huge fan of Nick and Phil's guitar work over the years -- they are some of the most talented shredders in metalcore, imo. Clearly Tim's situation was horrible, as everyone on this forum knows. Watching videos back in 2011-2013 you could tell that he had been living in a bubble away from the rest of the band, obsessed with weightlifting and body image. If the "Hitman" he paid had actually gone through with the intended plan, Tim would be in jail for life. But the crime didn't happen, as luck would have it, and here we are with Tim back.

    What I don't understand is why AILD couldn't just replace him with another screamer? Surely there are thousands of other screamers that would have jumped at the opportunity to replace Tim. Bringing Tim back may have made some fans happy, but countless others will drop support from the band forever.
     
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  15. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    If he had murdered his wife successfully, as he intended, then she wouldn't ever have had the opportunity to forgive him. :2c:
    Wow, that's a slippery slope argument. "Don't want to support a band with a lead singer who tried to have his wife murdered by a hitman? Might as well execute everyone who ever committed a crime!" I guess there is no middle ground on the internet anymore, you know, a place where a convicted solicitor of murder can get a job in a career field that doesn't rely solely on public support of its personalities for funding.
    Also, what's with the "Oh you don't support Lambesis?! Why do you support John Lenon/Ozzy/Varg/Lostprophets/etc.?! Gotcha!" stuff? Who in this thread said that they supported any of those people?
    And something not being as bad as something else that ends up killing people does not make it okay. This is another extreme example of a slippery slope all-or-nothing argument that makes no sense.
    At the end of the day, Lambesis did a thing that is probably just about at the top of the list of shitty things a person can possibly do, and he's shown that he feels no remorse for it. On top of that, he's done other shitty things before and since that lead me to believe he's just a shitty person and he'll probably never change. If he did change, and he's no longer a shitty person, it'll take a hell of a lot more than him saying "I'm no longer a shitty person, praise Jesus!" to convince me. If he turns around and donates 100% of his portion of the proceeds of the album to a battered women's charity or something, then maybe I'll reconsider. Until then...


    TL DR: There are better bands out there with better singers who have not committed attempted murder, who are way more deserving of my attention. Feel free to do whatever you guys want to do, but allow me to be disgusted by the thing that I find disgusting. No amount of arguing is going to get me to support this slimeball. To that end, I'll be muting this thread from here on out.
     
  16. Jacksonluvr636

    Jacksonluvr636 SS.org Regular

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    This is what I thought way back when this stuff happened and they split. Why not just replace Tim, yeah his vocals were great but not irreplaceable.

    However, who knows their situation? I do not. Maybe he owns the name, maybe he writes the music? Not really sure but that is what I felt they should have done.
     
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  17. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    Yeah this has "lawyer talk" written all over it.

    I'm sure all parties looked over every outstanding contract and came up with nothing since I doubt anyone planned on him being this terrible of a person.

    Usually a band member's death/disability is worked into this stuff. You'd think, given the nature of the business that they'd put something in there for a case like this, but I could see it being omitted, especially with an established act.
     
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  18. OliOliver

    OliOliver SS.org Regular

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    As far as I'm aware, Tim and Jordan own the IP. So no Tim, no AILD.
     
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  19. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

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    In my post, there's this: "I will respect any individual's choice of accepting Lambesis or not, but some blanket statements of how we "should" do this or that just make no sense to me, at all." so, in a nutshell, the opposite of what you conclude I said.

    It's there simply to point out of full of hypocritical BS this sort of event is. All this outrage, all these extreme positions all over the internet that can be summarized into "if you listen to AILS you support murder and you're a sack of shit" that are as senseless as the extreme apologists that talk of hiring a hitman as if it's "not that bad" from the extremes on the other end - this happens to the dude that actually displayed regret and remorse and was deemed fit to be released, but not a ton of other, far more popular artists. Why? Why is it morally acceptable to have Jimmy Page, David Bowie and many others frolicking with kids as low as 13 that are known of but not to accept a released ex-con that actually served time. This is what intrigues me, and it isn't related to any expression of support / condemnation in this particular thread.

    Honestly, and this may sound contradictory, I always take a good bit of time accepting such sudden contrition as totally genuine, and there is a strong chance he was simply clever and played the system. I am, however, inclined to believe that, failing that, knowing that he's complete and utterly fucked on relapse and what a good time there is to be had in the can will keep him in check. Hopefully, it comes to be.

    Please understand I am NOT trying to convince anyone to support him - hell, I'm not even into the band at all :lol: -, just to get a more down to earth debate regarding stuff that isn't just a lot of black vs white, but rather a vaster subject with a lot of grey territory.
     
  20. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

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    I think it's worth mentioning, especially for the folks not from the US, that our prison system is pretty much garbage compared to the rest of the western world. Seriously. The situation here is awful. We really need to do something about it...but we won't.

    There is next to zero focus on rehabilitation and the parole system is just as broken as the rest of it.

    I'm sure if he was imprisoned in a country that has its act together many would be more willing to take the parole boards assessment in good faith.

    I'm not saying that it was the right or wrong call to release him, but it's par the course for famous, not-poor white people to be released from our overcrowded prisons to make room for more non-violent first time drug offenders.

    Also, of note, he's so sorry that he tried suing the prison for $35 million because he had to go through steroid withdrawal and it's rather unpleasant, yet voluptuous side effects. Nothing says "I take responsibility for my situation" quite like suing for millions because you can't juice anymore.
     

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