Aristides Guitars

Discussion in 'Extended Range Guitars' started by jco5055, Jun 21, 2018.

Tags:
  1. Mathemagician

    Mathemagician SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    2,019
    Likes Received:
    948
    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2014
    Location:
    Tampa, FL
    I inquired about reversed headstocks in general once and was told that it was just not in the works due to the time consuming nature of all the molds/etc.

    I would imagine it would require significant demand to be worth the effort like anything.

    I mean look how many models and features Kiesel retired after giving it the ole’ college try.

    If James Hetfield or like Taylor Swift wanted one with unique features I’m sure it would get done, but otherwise we’ll just have to wait for them to keep growing.

    (And now I await the metal-only fanbois)
     
    Wolfhorsky likes this.
  2. MaxOfMetal

    MaxOfMetal Likes trem wankery. Super Moderator

    Messages:
    29,695
    Likes Received:
    8,410
    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2008
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Why can't they just mold a more "generic" shape and then CNC it into something else?

    I get that making molds is really expensive, but it seems like there could be some work arounds.

    Again, maybe something about the materials or process makes that impossible. Just spit balling.
     
  3. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Yeah I'm not sure, that seems viable thinking about it. I suggested the same thing Fred did a few years ago when I wanted to mix things up like have the 020 Neck profile on the 060 design by having a modular mold.

    Actually I think I know why the larger mold that you'd sand down/CNC after the fact might not work

    [​IMG]

    They'd have to have all of these layers molded as well, since they just inject and harden the Arium which is in a liquid (?) state. If Arium is sturdy enough post hardening I could definitely see a larger Arium body being CNC'd to shape then sealed with a finish and then painted over.
     
  4. Wolfhorsky

    Wolfhorsky Regular idiot

    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    304
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Wadowice, Poland
    IIRC Arium is porous so it can’t withstand any mechanical abuse. Its job is to resonate. Exoskeleton is responsible for durability and it’s made in molds out of glass fiber and epoxy resin. When they have two halves made, they glue them together. Then the they inject arium into the body/neck shell. Then 5hey install truss rod. Then they glue the fretboard....
     
  5. Flappydoodle

    Flappydoodle SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    720
    Likes Received:
    535
    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2018
    It's not about really needing to have a unique guitar. But again, Aristides is charging custom shop prices, for a guitar that isn't really custom apart from the colour scheme and chasing from 3 bridges. The scale length, shape/contours etc are all fixed.

    20-30k isn't that much really in the scheme of things. Bearing in mind each guitar is €3k, and they can churn out guitar bodies easily now, their margins should be good, and recouping that would be easy.

    I understand that it takes several hours for each guitar to sit in the mold. So adding new molds might also allow them to increase their capacity by "diluting" the model queue a bit.
     
  6. rifftrauma

    rifftrauma Trapped in time...

    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    697
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    I think from a business standpoint they're focused on cutting the time in the paint booth down. This is probably their biggest limitation currently in the build process, I think the molds only take a couple of days to cure. They're working on pressuring injecting pre-colored Arium into the molds that wont need a paint job.

    The next push has been the multi-scale builds, which they must feel there's a decent market for since they've invested a lot of time and cash into the R&D (molds, prototyping etc). I would rather this company slow roll the options and continue to produce instruments of this caliber, than have them rush for reverse head stocks and non traditional scale lengths at the cost of quality. Hopefully these steps will cut back on the production time. I waited almost 5 years for my Daemoness so... "custom shop times" may vary...
     
  7. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Location:
    Somewhere
    Well if we break down custom guitars, there are few builders that are willing to sit down and design something from scratch down to the body shape/neck shape etc. The only really custom thing about Daemoness and other builders is that you're picking woods and specs + some custom artwork if you really want that. The Aristides is less customizable by nature because the bulk of the design is set and you can't change it. But really it's no different, there's not much else to change on an Aristides besides the Finish/Pickups/Hardware/# of Strings. That's why 90% of custom shops are better labeled "semi-custom", you're given presets and choose the details.

    But I doubt someone wanting a custom guitar down to the bone is considering Aristides at all in the first place. I'm interested in them now more than ever because they hold up to Maryland's Winter far better than my wooden guitars do. With my ever decreasing amount of free time, I value being able to just pick up my guitar and jam. I'm too much of a stickler and I'll end up setting up my guitars for 30 minutes to an hour to get them playing how I want to when I get home from work. So for me there's a functional use to the Aristides that my other guitars don't give me.

    I also don't think that's inherently the problem here, 20-30k is still a large lump sum. If we're really going to dive into this you have to figure out their profit margins and run the numbers that way.

    Reverse Headstock x3 = 60 - 90k (Lets just average it at like 80k, just under 27k per mold) in Molds depending on much they end up costing). And lets say for every 3k guitar their profit margins are 1/3 of that price. (This is just a mental number for the sake of doing the math)

    Let's say just for the 060 Reverse Headstock, you'd have to find effectively 30 people who not only want it, but also have 3k Euro up front to break even on the cost of the Reverse Headstock 060 mold.

    The facebook group has been calling for a new shape, (Singlecut/Tele, Explorer, etc) but even among enthusiasts you'd be hard pressed to find enough people to agree on even a single spec. As much as I want a thicker neck on the guitars it just isn't cost effective to make those molds because the amount of people who want what I want and are ready to put down an order doesn't make that worth it for them. The things are way too expensive for them to just make like a Flying V mold and sell maybe a dozen of them in the model's timespan. They already discontinued the 010 in the past so we've seen a similar thing happen.

    I'm sure if you organized a group of people ready to order that would break even on their cost of a mold to produce an instrument they'd probably do that given they had the time/empty queue to pick up that amount of orders at once.

    And Rifftrauma is right, The Paint Booth is the time suck here in the current 8 - 9 month wait. The 060R model that he's talking about is expected to have a less than 2 month wait time from ordering to delivery.
     
  8. Winspear

    Winspear Tom Winspear Vendor

    Messages:
    10,906
    Likes Received:
    1,492
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2009
    Location:
    Southend-on-Sea, Essex, U.K
    A few things;
    "Custom shop prices but not custom shop specs" - Thing is, it's not really 'custom shop prices' - that's not really a thing. You can get a custom shop for £1000 if you want, it just wont be great. Aristides prices are 'high end' prices. There are many many production guitars or small-shop non-custom guitars at a similar pricepoint and more that don't get you anything custom. Yes you can get a true custom for lower, but Aristides are really just super high end guitars with options, priced appropriately. It's personal choice whether you feel it's worth it of course, but I don't really think 'custom shop spec' is missing from the pricepoint. It's just unfortunate if their spec options don't align with a given individuals preference.

    They also come across as a real proper industrial business. Very professional, stable, sustainable. Think of it like an engineering company that happens to be making guitars. It's a very different operation to the typical luthiery setup. You can't just walk into industrial factories expecting them to cater to oddjobs. Not only is it expensive and impractical for them to provide more options or churn out new models, it just doesn't make sense to do so. They may appeal to more people, but it's not really in their best interests to do so. They have an operation running smoothly, with an output level and presumably a bottom line that they are happy with. They could cater to more people, but in the end it's only going to cause them trouble to do so and probably isn't going to improve the bottom line much or at all. The system is working nicely, and growing consistently. Less options makes for smoother business - if you're making good money and making a decent amount of people happy, you're good. That said, more options have been released consistently and continue to be so - lots of new stuff on the horizon!
     
  9. I play music

    I play music SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    473
    Likes Received:
    243
    Joined:
    May 5, 2018
    Disagree. Was never too bothered by the speed holes but your mockup without them looks even better IMO.
     
  10. Jonathan20022

    Jonathan20022 Engineer

    Messages:
    4,228
    Likes Received:
    1,517
    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2011
    Location:
    Somewhere
    I keep forgetting Imgur hates this website, just reuploaded it.

    [​IMG]

    It feels ironically empty to me without it :lol: but yeah definitely a preference thing. @narad made a better example awhile back.
     
  11. cardinal

    cardinal Strat 7 Guy

    Messages:
    4,466
    Likes Received:
    1,472
    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2007
    Location:
    Northern Virginia
    Much better without the dents IMHO.

    As for complaints about the price and the available options, I get it: it’d be great if all gear could be tailor made for me for a low price.

    Hopefully the company is turning a profit for them to be comfortable, but I doubt these guys are parking their Ferraris and walking up to their yachts right now. Surely they’re doing what they can to sell guitars to make money, but there are limits to what they can actually perform and deliver. It’s hard and time consuming to make a quality guitar no matter how you slice it (or mold it).
     
  12. Dineley

    Dineley SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    971
    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2017
    Location:
    GTA Ontario Canada

    I think that one only looks decent because its an 8 string so theres that extra girth down the middle, but yeah the scoops are cool, and they make impeccable quality instruments with ridiculously nice finishes, the prices are fair, high... but fair.
     
    Jonathan20022 likes this.
  13. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,558
    Likes Received:
    984
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    I personally love the dents. It gives character and identity. It makes it look like an "Aristides". Whitout the dents it just looks like a generic guitar body. Specially since they are solid colors

    My only complain is for the basses. Not only they took the worse shape to based off (010)... they should have done the normal 060/070 guitar one dents.... But also failed to actually make a "bass", like Fender did they just scaled up the guitar design . They took the CAD file and drag the corners to make it bigger and call it done...... Body is unpractical for a bass, looks terrible... They jsut needed the regular dents, have it with 24 frets and extend the horns to match point of balance. That way you would end up with a much smaller body, less weight and a much better appealing body. Plus if Im not wrong you are stuck with the JJ pickups, instead to offer all the other bass pickups configurations. IF they can do it for guitar, they should do it for the basses too
     
    Gadjet, Winspear and The906 like this.
  14. diagrammatiks

    diagrammatiks SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    1,808
    Likes Received:
    1,130
    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2010
    Location:
    china
    That mold price seems really low. Shit, I'll just pay for a headless mold when I'm more liquid.
    But, i don't think that factors the cost of hiring personal to design and calibrate and test the things. If all their employees are busy right now that's a significant extra cost for the duration of the design process.

    Also, when did custom guitar get equated to more expensive guitar. Expensive guitars are expensive because they are well built and care is taken in the process. Whether or not you can get a custom body shape or scale lengths doesn't matter at all.

    Also, I think the speed holes look much wierder in the pictures then in person. once you are actually playing the guitar they are much smaller visually and you don't ever feel them.
     
  15. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

    Messages:
    7,311
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Cheongju, SK
    I am legitimately jealous of the people who think the scoops look good. I really, really wish I did, too. It'd be awesome to have a boutique quality guitar that was highly resistant to the effects of temperature and humidity, but it'd be such a bummer to have to look at the damned thing.
     
    BIG ND SWEATY likes this.
  16. rifftrauma

    rifftrauma Trapped in time...

    Messages:
    1,456
    Likes Received:
    697
    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2011
    Location:
    Virginia
    I honestly haven't noticed them in almost 2 years. This thread has been the only things that's made me even remotely aware of them recently. I know how important aesthetics can be to people, but the damn thing won't fall out of tune in shit Virginia weather, so I'll deal with the scoops lol.
     
  17. Grand Moff Tim

    Grand Moff Tim Some call me... Tim

    Messages:
    7,311
    Likes Received:
    1,328
    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2010
    Location:
    Cheongju, SK

    I can see looking past them if they never really bothered you to being with, especially because of the other benefits the guitars have. I do think there is a point where one can look past a negative or two to embrace a positive. Sadly, for me, the scoops are just too far past that point.

    It's a bit like if someone created the a fantastic new textile for making clothes. It is comfortable, soft to the touch but resistant to tearing, wicks sweat to keep cool while also insulating against the heat...

    ...and then used it to make shirts with pictures of Roseanne Barr emblazoned across the front, naked as the day she was born, bent over and spreading her cheeks for the camera.

    Sure, it'd be nice to have a shirt that does all those cool things, but I think I'd be fine settling with older textile technology so I don't have to have Roseanne's butthole on my chest.

    I realize I might sound like one of those SSO whiners who complains "if only this had that feature..." but would never have actually bought one in the first place, but I've spent a lot of money on gear over the past 5 years or so. Just last year I got a custom 5 string 33" singlecut headless bass from the Scottish luthier ACG specifically so I'd have a gigging bass that's less unwieldy on public tranportation. I'm definitely not above throwing my money at a perceived "problem" in my collection.

    With all the issues I've had with climate adversely affecting my instruments since moving to Korea, I'd love to be able to throw my money at that problem, but sadly for me, I was cursed with functioning eyes.

    Oh well. I should probably stop stinking up this thread with my negativity and leave it to the fans of the brand, haha. I'm reasonably certain this issue is never going to change, so I'll just keep my fingers crossed that another brand will come along some day.
     
    rifftrauma, Winspear and Razerjack like this.
  18. Wolfhorsky

    Wolfhorsky Regular idiot

    Messages:
    997
    Likes Received:
    304
    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2014
    Location:
    Wadowice, Poland
    I would buy headless Aristides or two. With smaller and less bulky body shape.
    I like what they do technically, but i can’t stand the look of their inline 6 headstock. Reversed might look better. But why or why didn’t they jump on the headless train? I don’t get it. They don’t make traditional guitars so modern designs should be pished by them imho.
     
  19. Fred the Shred

    Fred the Shred Shrederick

    Messages:
    4,842
    Likes Received:
    3,217
    Joined:
    Jul 28, 2009
    Location:
    Lisbon, Portugal
    @MaxOfMetal - routes are done through the shell, prior to setting the fingerboard and finishing. Arium isn't keen on mechanical manipulation due to its structure, so it's kept to a minimum with the regular routing options taking place on fully cured instruments. Under these circumstances, which are a bit of the necessary evil, the modular approach is what I'd see as the most viable in the near future, to be honest.
     
    Wolfhorsky likes this.
  20. A-Branger

    A-Branger SS.org Regular

    Messages:
    3,558
    Likes Received:
    984
    Joined:
    Apr 17, 2015
    Location:
    QLD, Australia
    I saw again the old factory tour in order to say ehre that they dont rout the pickup cavities (but they do), and that they use a modular system, which they dont, but they used to do on the 010 models (or whatever model was shown at the start), as he shows the mould with a HSS pickups mould saying "we can change this according to what the client wants, different pickups configurations" or something like that. Which would make mroe sense to ahve a modular system for pickups and bridges. And if that is possible they should be able to do the same with a headstock and necks
     

Share This Page