444hz tuning ( 528hz)

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by willy25, Sep 2, 2017.

  1. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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    I have 3 guitars , 1st one 440hz, than the others ones 444hz and 432hz. And i cant find the same notes on either of them around the fretboard.

    So it will be impossible to jam with someone. How i said before every frequency has its own alternative tuning. It sounds weird. Someone in E standard 440hz can jam with someone in Eb flat 440hz. Theres better explanation online. You guys that have multiple guitars try the test and see if you find any notes that match.
     
  2. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    The reason you can't jam with someone tuned to 440 or 432 Hz when you are tuned to 444 is no grand mystery. Your guitar is tuned 16 cents sharp compared to the 440hz tuned guitarist's instrument and 48 cents sharper than the 432hz guitarist's instrument. 48 cents is 2 cents short of what is known as a Quarter Tone (50 cents). You've unwittingly entered the realm of microtones, if your guitar were fretted for 24-EDO rather than 12-EDO you would simply have to move your playing down one fret (1 quarter tone) to play with the 432hz guitarist while tuned to 444.

    This is a piece of music composed by Ivan Wyschnegradsky which has 2 pianos playing a quater tone apart - in other words it is a piece in 24-EDO.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  3. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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    I was aiming more to find its octaves, not the exact pitch frequency of a note. couldnt find any.

    All pianos come in A=440hz right? Grab an 88 key piano or digital, and tune your guitar to 444hz, and go to the higher notes on the piano to see if you find a match or an octave. Same thing goes for 432hz( i think but i havent tried it). You wont find any, its just a tiny difference, thats why theres no match or any octaves.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  4. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    I get the impression from this comment that you don't really begin to know how tuning works.

    Any two instruments tuned to arbitrarily different reference pitches are going to sound horrible playing together.
     
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  5. TedEH

    TedEH Cromulent

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    Even if there were such a thing- it's very unlikely that the reason it's ideal has anything to do with how "natural" it is, or any kind of nonsense involving resonating with the frequency of the universe or something like that.
     
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  6. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  7. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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  8. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    You don't seem to understand what I was saying. Of course the octaves won't match, because, as simply as possible: You're tuned sharp to varying degrees in either scenario. The secondary point I was making that there exist alternative systems in which you could match octaves despite different reference pitches being used.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  9. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    "Octaves" have nothing to do with it. :scratch:

    The frequency of a hydrogen atom de-exciting from the first excited state above ground to ground state is 2 466 006 893 147 980 Hz. If A = 560.705 Hz, then the A 42 octaves above reference frequency is exactly the First Lyman Series frequency. If someone else uses A=440 Hz, then the two play together, it's going to sound awful. If the 560.705 Hz guy says, my tuning is too high, I should go an octave down, then the result is going to be exactly equal in how awful it sounds. If the guy transposes everything down a major third to the closest match, it's still going to be horribly off.

    If you are talking about overtones or whatever, then I think your point might just not be relevant either way. There is simply no reason to prefer one tuning over another aside from convention.

    And that convention is kind of a big deal - it's why we have "in tune" and "out of tune." I'm all for challenging that, in fact I have a bunch of microtonal instruments that fly right in the face of conventional tuning, but I don't promise anyone that any of the notes on those instruments are any more profound. It's just a fun way to venture into an alternative take on how music can work - all the while understanding deep in my heart that it's unconventional, and never trying to sell it as unlocking the secrets of the universe or anything like that.

    Here's the raw honesty, brace yourself:

    The whole "I use A = xxx Hz because it is better than A = 440 Hz" always falls into the same pitfall. It does not matter in the least, except that you are using a different reference standard than everyone else.

    It's exactly like deciding that one inch should be 26 mm instead of 25.4 mm. All it does is throw off everyone else using the standard. If you make some spec parts, they won't fit in other people's machines, and it's just going to cause all sorts of nonsense confusion for nothing. If you only make parts for your own machines, then everything will look fine on the surface, but nothing is going to work any better or worse.

    I recall ages ago, Novax made some sort of claim that their scale lengths were specially tuned to some sort of resonant frequency of the guitar string. I'm pretty sure they removed all references to that white paper off of their site now, because it obviously just played off of a fallacy. The string's resonant frequency is determined by the length of the string - not the other way around.

    It's like people think that just throwing around terms like "Hz" and "octaves" then attaching numbers and some handwaving and abracadabra, and there is some sort of conspiracy theory or a fundamental fact of science that somehow only this person is aware of, and no one else knows. Upon any further inspection, though, all that's there is someone who is confused about something and became overconfident that he knew what he was talking about.

    You want to tune to A = 1000 Hz, that's fine. But no one really cares.
     
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  10. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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    Great explanation. Also i want to apologize from bringing this up. I know its a forum to talk about music. I was just sharing that its sounds natural to my ears , and 440hz doesnt it gets me tired , but only when i play an instrument not listening to music. Who knows why? But yeah lets just keep our beliefs to our selfs etc.. How you said, if someone wants to tune differently nobody cares.
     
  11. Necris

    Necris Bonitis.

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    With regards to Octaves, what I understood him looking for is as follows:
    Tune to E Standard at 432, then Tune to E Standard at 444. The "E"s (or whatever note) between the two guitars won't match, the next octave up of the same notes don't match between the two guitars. I'm not sure why he's surprised. They don't, and will not match.

    The secondary part was basically a tangent. In the case of 432 vs 444 you have a difference for +/- 48 cents. I brought up quarter tones because of this, because it struck me that you could bridge that gap, albeit imperfectly, with a quarter tone instrument. E2 on a 444hz referenced instrument and and E2 on a 432hz referenced instrument still would not be equivalent, but you could find a notes of roughly the same frequency between the two instruments - you'd probably just be sharp or flat 2 cents. Unless my mental math is failing me, which is entirely possible these days.

    It is fundamentally a nonsensical way of going about things though, both players should simply be tuning to the same reference pitch, rather than needing to craft entirely separate instruments just to come close to being in tune with one another.

    For all I care players can tune to the revolutions of Saturn if it gets the creativity flowing.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2017
  12. Spaced Out Ace

    Spaced Out Ace 0 0 1 0 0 6 5 0 3\

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    No wonder people just said, "we're all going to agree to use 440, alright? Alright."
     
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  13. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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    Sorry for misunderstanding.
    Of course they wont match if you play the same fret on both guitars. What i meant to say, play a note on the 432hz guitar and try to find it on the 444hz guitar or the 440hz, you wont. you just said it, you will probably be flat or sharp.

    I like your quote: For all I care players can tune to the revolutions of Saturn if it gets the creativity
     
  14. mongey

    mongey SS.org Regular

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    I did a bunch of messing around with A 432 a couple years back after reading about it online . Is there something to it .Maybe ? but it all goes out the window once we wrangle our notes into shape with equal temperament. your A may the the intergalactic A but your next note isn't in tune with the universe anymore

    I post this often . but its a great watch on ET if anyone cares


     
  15. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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    Hi, ill watch the video. Besides 432hz, have you every tried 444hz? For me its sounds more pleasant , clean. Dont know how to explain it. Its just preference. I just finish showing it to a friend, in a blind test, and he prefered it over 432 and 440. Nothing to do with the universe. I never said that.
     
  16. mongey

    mongey SS.org Regular

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    haven't tried 444 . next time I'm just messing aorund I'll give it a go
     
  17. willy25

    willy25 SS.org Regular

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    Cool. And theres a debate online 528hz (444hz) vs 432hz about which one resonates with nature, us etc.. some of the 444hz people say that, 432hz has become popular to mask the truth of 444hz. If the theory is true or not. I dont care. I only care about whats pleasant to my ears.
     
  18. CrazyDean

    CrazyDean SS.org Regular

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    What exactly do you mean by that first sentence? Are you saying that the photon released when H de-excites from the first excited state to the ground state will be at a particular energy level which can also be expressed as a frequency? Even if the photon emitted had a frequency of 440Hz, we wouldn't be able to hear it because that's not how our ears work.

    P.S. I think this topic is stupid. If you want to play out of tune, do it. I'm pretty sure Willy25 is a troll.
     
  19. bostjan

    bostjan MicroMetal Contributor

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    Naw, you see different frequencies of light as different colours (in this case, you don't see it because it's ultraviolet), but my comment was heavily sarcastic. Even if you could hear 2.466 PHz, it would have no relation at all to 560.7 Hz, since the order of the harmonic is ridiculous. These golden reference pitch guys always bring up that their tuning is the umpteen millions subharmonic of some universal frequency, like the peak frequency of light from the Sun, or the Planck Radiation frequency, or whatever, and invariably, the mathematics of it never works out quite right anyway. Three lefts make a right, but three consecutive logical missteps doesn't make anything other than a confusing mess.
     
  20. p0ke

    p0ke 7-string guitard

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    I agree, but this thread is a very entertaining read nonetheless :lol:
     

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